Introducing Ogimi.AI - AI Generated Personalized Mindful Meditation Experiences - with David Gull, Founder

Transcription

:: 01:45

So welcome to this edition of The Mindful Coach Association podcast. I'm your host, Brettt Hill. I'm the founder of The The Mindful Coach Association Association. And one day my friend Mark Monytelbaum, who I had the pleasure of working with back almost over a year ago, we co-produced a conference called The Future is Mindful. And he invited me to be a spokesperson.

:: 02:12

Very brief presentation on a recent webcast or a recent seminar on Chat GPT and Mindfulness. And there I met the most interesting character. Who I'm happy to have on the show today is my guest, David Gull. He's a tech entrepreneur, founder and licensed architect, and a creator. He thrives on designing and building new products.

:: 02:37

He's the co founder and CEO of Ogimi, the first AI meditation coach. Now, let me say that again, the first AI meditation coach with Ogimi. He is mission driven with the goal of helping 1 billion that's capital B ilian people fix their mental health through highly personalized daily meditation practice. Meditation has been deeply meaningful to David since he started the practice 15 years ago when he hit the point of burnout early in his architecture career. He knows that if he can help others create and deepen a meditation practice to explore their inner world, he will have made the world a better place.

:: 03:19

And we are here to talk about David, his journey, and this incredible application that he has ventured to put into the world. Ogimi, AI. Welcome to this show, David. Thanks, Brad. Thanks for having me.

:: 03:32

And thanks for that amazing intro. No, you're welcome. Speaking of amazing, I saw your presentation on the conference that we did, the little seminar that we did, and I thought, wait, what? And Chat GPT is all the rage and AI is all the rage. And there's so many websites, but you don't see a lot in the mindfulness space.

:: 03:55

And that's why Mark is a trailblazer always. And he's been producing mindful text just to put a little shout out to him forever on Mindful text because he's doing great work there and rounding up a group of thought leaders and people who are innovating in this space. And when you talked about what you're doing with AI and Mindfulness, I thought, this is really, truly groundbreaking, and I had to get in and hear more about you. And then we met and you explained, explain to the listeners what is it that you've built and then we'll talk a little bit about how it is you got moved to put this into the world. Perfect.

:: 04:37

Yeah. So Oghini, as you said, is the first AI powered guided meditation coach. And what that means is that every meditation in the app is generated in real time for each individual so that they can get the kind of one on one coaching that they deserve in their meditation practice. So you're saying that these aren't picked from a menu of pre recorded laundry list of meditations? The same.

:: 05:03

Each one is unique. Exactly. And it's created in real time based on what that user wants help with in that moment. And so the idea here is before other meditation apps like Headspace or Calm or Insight Timer, you had meditation coaches like yourself, right? Or you would head down to the local Buddhist temple and learn to meditate there.

:: 05:32

And along came these apps and they kind of packaged up that experience into pre recorded guided meditations. And that was super powerful in that it helped distribute that and raise the awareness around meditation, particularly in the west. But what got lost in that process was that one on one personalized aspect that you got from a meditation coach. And so if you're recording a meditation that's going to go out to a couple of million users, it has to be sort of generic, right? So that it resonates a little bit with everyone.

:: 06:06

But what if you could have meditations that were created just for you, right? And so we're really bridging the gap between the one on one attention that a coach could provide to an individual and the scale and distribution and cost effectiveness that's enabled by AI and technology. So the way I think about it is democratizing access to one on one personal meditation coaches, right? If you choose to work with a meditation coach, that's an amazing experience, but you may only get to meet with them once a week for an hour, and you're probably paying fifty dollars to one hundred dollars for that session, and you may have eight to twelve sessions spread out over a couple of months. And again, that can be an amazing experience.

:: 06:53

But one, not everyone can afford that. Two, not everyone has time for that. Three, the scheduling of that is a little difficult, and four, you're left with the other six days out of the week where you're not getting that one on one attention. So to give someone this one on one attention through the app at any point in time. If they're distressed about something, if they're excited about something, if they want to sit down and meditate on that topic, they can get that in real time exactly what they need help with.

:: 07:22

So how does that work if I'm sitting down and my kids are coming home from school and they're barking and they're angry and I need to calm down, and how does that work? I can break out the app, and how does it become customized for my specific situation? Yeah, so it's a great use case. You could literally type into the app, hey, help me free myself from the distractions and the noise of my children who just got home from school. And by telling us that that's what's going on in your life, we can help create a meditation that would help you process, that, help you get present with your own thoughts and sort of sit with what you're dealing with.

:: 08:08

So that's a great example. Could you put in, like, help me with Jeff and Jane kind of thing? And it would actually be that specific? Yes, and the more specific you get, the better. So an example was this weekend I did a meditation on Sunday, which was Father's Day.

:: 08:25

So I did help me with gratitude for my father evan on Father's Day. And it walked me through a very sweet meditation on just feeling grateful for the things that he's given me in my life, for the support and the love that he's provided, and then also for forgiveness for anything that he didn't provide, not by any shortcoming of his own, but just wasn't aware that maybe I needed it in the moment. Right. We all have those kinds of issues. So the AI talked to you through that?

:: 08:58

Like, this is like a computer generated I'm going to play a little bit of devil's advocate here because it feels a little uncomfortable in a way. And I don't mean that when I say uncomfortable. It's like when you get on a bicycle and you've never ridden it before. It's like, wait, what is this thing? And it's a little bit unusual to put these concepts together of, oh, here's a mindfulness meditation that's going to coach me through calming down around my gratitude, around my father or my family or my work.

:: 09:32

I'll give you one. I actually did one just before the show here on Help Me Calm Down during this podcast. And so it's kind of like very specific. It's that specific. It's very cool, but it's kind of a really new thing.

:: 09:45

So for the listeners here, how can an AI actually help us do that? Because it's just a computer. How does it know or how can it be effective in that way so that we actually hear it in a way where we feel like it's about our lives? Yeah, that's an amazing question. So I think a couple of things to remember first is that when you're doing the meditations, you don't necessarily need to know that you're using AI.

:: 10:13

The truth is we're leveraging the technology to create this superior product. But for anyone who's hesitant, just remember that what AI really is, is the collective knowledge of human intelligence and wisdom. So the AI models have been fed all of, essentially all of the written history and the internet, which is created by humans. Right. Machines didn't create all of that content.

:: 10:41

That is human wisdom. Humans created it. Now it's just taking it and it's processing it in a way like a human would if one meditation coach could read every meditation script that's ever been created, every book on meditation that's ever been written, every piece of human wisdom on meditation, and then take that knowledge and apply it towards teaching their students. That's what AI is doing. Wow.

:: 11:11

And so using that as an informed data set, it's creating and crafting a specific experience for you based on your prompts. That's exactly right. And the other thing to keep in mind is, as individual humans, we're inherently limited by how much we can learn. A couple of examples, there would be a meditation coach might be able to go to two to four seminars per year, right. Where they're going to learn new things.

:: 11:43

The AI can learn from, again, everything and it never forgets. And then on the other side, it also can learn from more students. So an individual coach might only interface from a couple of hundred students per year. The AI can interface with millions and millions, up to a billion people, and get their feedback, hey, this didn't work for me, or I thought this was particularly powerful. And so in learning what actually works, you get this positive virtuous cycle of improving and getting better and better and better without ever forgetting.

:: 12:21

Wow. So it just keeps learning and improving.

:: 12:27

It's like people are going to think, well, gee, what about the different kinds of qualities that go into a meditational experience? Because there's things like, what if I don't like the voice? Or what if I don't like, is there music involved? So can you address like, how do you help people craft an experience that they actually want to? Because there's a certain amount of trust in a meditation where you kind of, and I'm going to use this kind of a powerful word, you kind of surrender yourself to kind of being led by the guided experience and you're putting your trust in someone.

:: 13:07

I once had a meditation teacher when I was taking my coaching and she would take us into some very strange places and I learned kind of like, I don't really want to go there with her. And it's like, how do you create, help people create an experience then that they feel like they want to relax into and that they can hear because they're not aversive to the voice or the accent or the gender or the pacing and all that kind of thing. Yes. You've picked up on what I believe to be one of the biggest limitations of the meditation apps that existed previously. So if you went on any app or YouTube or Spotify to find a guided meditation, a bunch of things had to be right at the same time for you to have a great experience.

:: 13:53

The voice had to be one that you like, the sound of the ambient music had to be the type of track that you wanted, the length had to be appropriate for how long you were willing to dedicate to that practice. And then the content had to be relevant to what you personally needed to practice that day. Right. So any one of those four things in a pre recorded meditation being a little bit off could prevent you, as you said, from surrendering into the experience and instead you're sitting maybe in judgment or a little bit annoyed or a little bit peeved. Yeah.

:: 14:25

And it doesn't take much to just knock you off the bike I was talking about. It's kind of like I just really don't like that tone of voice. And it doesn't have to be anything, it can just maybe it reminds you of somebody, but whatever it is, it doesn't take that much sometimes. Exactly. And so all of those variables in Oghini are personal choices that you're able to make.

:: 14:45

So when you start a meditation, currently in the app, we have four voices to choose from and those choices will expand rapidly. Those are collaborations that we're doing with real world meditation coaches. We can clone their voice using AI technology with just about 20 minutes of voice recording and put them into the app. So yeah, in terms of giving people near unlimited choices of voice quality, that will be continuing to improve. On the ambient music side, we currently have four choices, but those will also expand rapidly and they can be generative as well.

:: 15:23

So if you ask for a meditation that is to get you motivated for a sports event, you obviously want something to kind of get you excited, more epic music perhaps. If you want something to grieve the loss of a relationship, you may want something a little bit more melancholy and so those choices will come along as well. And then yeah, the other really cool part that I haven't mentioned yet is the languages. So again, in that scenario before a pre recorded meditation, if the meditation is recorded in English, but you're a native Spanish speaker, it's not going to be as great of an experience for you. We are going to be launching multilingual on the platform so that as a user for any meditation, you can choose to begin with from English, Spanish, French, German, Portuguese, Italian or Hindi.

:: 16:13

And so the ability to have that native language and have someone to speak to you in your tongue is obviously going to make it feel more appropriate and more created. So important. That is so important.

:: 16:28

People who don't know my background so much. I have a background in technology. I used to work for Microsoft. I was CTO for a couple of companies.

:: 16:37

It's like I hear what you're saying and I'm going, yes, of course. AI and language conversion technology and taking this and making it accessible. Which is an interesting segue, because when I first heard your mission statement and we talked about this on the phone and you said, I want to reach a billion people, and that's a gigantic number. And I thought, there's nothing like going for the brass ring, as they say. But that's a big number.

:: 17:05

How did you settle on that? What is it that put that on your to do list? I really like to understand more about how you got focused on this as your mission. Yeah, so I can get a bit to the personal origin story, but just in terms of how we chose a billion, we essentially looked at who in the world has access to the Internet on a smartphone? Right.

:: 17:31

And knowing that if that's true, we believe that meditation is part of the three legged duel of your personal well being. And the legs of that are your mental fitness, your physical fitness, and your diet. Right. And those three things being core pillars for how to create a stable foundation for yourself individually. So we really believe that meditation as a practice can benefit anyone.

:: 18:00

And so that's where that number really comes from. And obviously the true mission would be to help all of humanity, anyone. Again, we all struggle with certain things. We all want to elevate our awareness and our consciousness, and giving people the tools to do that would be, for me, a very fulfilling mission. And you touched a little bit briefly on how I got here, but I came to meditation through stress and burnout.

:: 18:31

And I was about one year into an intense architecture career. I was working 60 to 80 hours weeks, and I took a vacation from New York out here to La. And it kind of took stepping away from that day to day for it to hit me that I was completely burnt out. I was exhausted, I was sleeping twelve hour nights on my vacation. I had gained a bunch of weight, I was feeling pain in my body.

:: 19:00

And it was a wake up call. I realized this is unsustainable. I'm one year into what's supposed to be a 40 plus year career. And so it was enough of a wake up call that I flew back from that vacation and I picked up the Paleo diet, I started exercising and I started a meditation practice. And so it's been a consistent for me in all of those buckets, actually.

:: 19:30

I've stayed consistent for the past 15 years and it's kept me, I think, healthy and focused and able to work through what ended up being another five years of that same architecture career. And then two startups prior to Ogimi. And startups are equally stressful. No kidding. So this is a great learning moment for people who are in the startup world or in the business world.

:: 19:56

How do you manage to keep yourself kind of not burning out through these practices? Yeah, I mean, a huge amount of it comes down to the awareness. And so when I make sure that I do a short and honestly, it's short meditation each morning, ten minutes, maybe 15, sometimes 20, I'm checking in with what's going on with myself. Right. Where are my thoughts, what topics are they on?

:: 20:26

That can be a very strong indicator of where the stress and anxiety in my life is coming from and that enables me to focus on that in terms of how can I sort of address this problem? Or sometimes it's just enough to get my head out of that problem for long enough to kind of get out of what might be like a thought spiral or a thinking pattern that's making the problem worse than it actually is. So that daily check in is very powerful. I will also do longer sessions getting into the 30 to 60 minutes, usually for me on the weekends, just because I find I have more free time, that's a great time for me to really do. They end up being just deeper experiences, less about awareness.

:: 21:17

And often when I give myself that time, that's when I have these more transcendent experiences or more sort of spiritual experiences where I feel either a sense of unity, I feel that I've entered a different state of consciousness. So that's kind of my weekend practice. But for a lot of people coming into meditation, we all experience some kind of burnout or some kind of low point, an emotional distress. Everyone's been through it. Right.

:: 21:47

And so to have a tool in your pocket that can help you during those times, that's personally how I came to meditation. And then it has evolved into, again, this broader practice that still addresses some of those performance and personal mental health issues and then also spirituality. Wow. So the longer meditations, they help you reach a different, deeper state of consciousness. They're actually like state changes in your consciousness, but you're doing the shorter ones.

:: 22:18

And I really liked what you said about just noticing the kinds of thoughts that I'm having helps me understand the kinds of stresses I'm experiencing. Exactly. And so these short meditations are good for that.

:: 22:36

What else can people do with the app in ways that they could integrate this into a practice in their lives, into these shorter? And I'm a big advocate for short, more frequent experiences with mindful meditation than the longer ones, but for people, because that fits better into our world these days, even though I love to do the longer ones, people always resist. It's like, oh, I don't have half an hour every day to devote to this. And there's that old joke, it's like, well, for you then an hour. It's kind of like by doing the mindful meditations, you actually create efficiencies in your world that you can't really even imagine until you do it because you make better decisions.

:: 23:23

That's been my experience. So if I want to generate more time in my life, meditate more, it's kind of unintuitive, but true. So the app lets you kind of pick your times and stuff. What else is in there that might help people kind of integrate a routine into their life? Yes, I think that there's some features around gamification that are just meant to make it fun and kind of scratch that slightly competitive itch that a lot of us have.

:: 23:54

So we have streaks, which is, have you missed a day or not? And there's a motivation to maintain your streak. And this works really well in an app called Duolingo for Language Learning. And we love their model for having taken something else. That's kind of a difficult practice to stick with.

:: 24:10

Learning a language is one of the. Hardest things you can do as an adult. And they've made it fun and rewarding and exciting. And so we've integrated those elements as well. Some consistency statistics, which is out of the last 30 days, how many have you meditated and try and keep that above 90%?

:: 24:28

So just giving yourself some benchmarks that you can go against. We have leaderboards and rankings if you want to see how your meditation practice stacks up against some other folks on the platform. So that's a really fun way to do it. On the timing of it, again, by giving people the flexibility to do a meditation as short as five minutes, we're really hoping to kind of overcome that resistance that you described where people say. I don't have time for this.

:: 24:58

And we say, well, certainly you have five minutes. And just the act of closing your eyes for five minutes to get off social media, to tune out all of the visual stimulation that comes from having your eyes open and to just kind of get into your present and present into your body is really powerful. So those five minute meditations I recommend, if you're going to do anything, do those. Yes, exactly. And then otherwise we just have a variety of techniques on the platform.

:: 25:30

So when you want to kind of explore, that's where we suggest, hey, try do a week of visualization based meditations, do a week of mindfulness based meditations, do a week of body scan meditations and just kind of go through those as an exploratory practice and get to know which ones you think are helping you the most. Right, because we're all different and so certain practices, certain techniques will resonate differently with different people. So that's another way we recommend just exploring and then in terms of topics, we have essentially a recommendation engine that gives you kind of an unlimited number of inspirations for topics. So when you're in the app, you can click the random button in the input field and it will just throw ideas out and hopefully one catches your eye, say, oh yeah, I do want to work on my mindset around finances today. And then once you have that inspiration again, you can get more specific.

:: 26:33

So it might say, help me with strategies to get out of debt. Right? And it will walk you through a meditation that might help you see something slightly differently about how you're handling your finances. So that aspect of getting specific again is important. Amazing.

:: 26:53

That sounds like I really like the idea of being able to suggest things to people because that's a strength of AI platform, is to be able to come up with ideas and suggest them to people. So that's really an excellent feature. And I'm curious about how was it that you, someone who's a recovering architect who discovered meditation, got the notion to marry AI into the service and then something, and you went, oh my God, yes, I'm going to do that. Help us understand how that all got wired up. Yeah.

:: 27:32

So four years into my second startup, it was a real estate virtual reality company and it was very stimulating. It was cool technology to be working with. I love being an entrepreneur, bringing and creating new products. But about four years into it, I did hit a mini existential cris where. I can existential cris.

:: 28:00

It wasn't the worst cris, I've had worse. But it was a wake up call again to I'm putting a lot of energy into something that I've realized is not as fulfilling as I'd like it to be, that it's not my life's purpose, it's ultimately not that meaningful to me. And yet I'm putting in long hours and grinding and putting all of my energy into it. That wake up call came and it sort of snapped me out of that. Rut that I was almost a spell of like, just keep creating, keep doing.

:: 28:44

And so that snapped me out of it. And I was exhibiting at a conference to a bunch of real estate brokers. I had a booth and I left early, I moved home. I called a business broker and I and I sold that business and it took about a year for that to happen. And while I was going through that, I spent a lot of time thinking about what do I want to do next?

:: 29:09

A lot of that time was spent in meditation and it kept coming back to me. If I could help other people create and sustain this habit for themselves, I know that I will have made a meaningful contribution to the world. And so that was kind of the origin of it. Now, last year when we as a team started experimenting with how can we make meditation more approachable, more personal, more fun? How can we get people to use it in a different way?

:: 29:44

We were actually using AI to author meditation scripts, and then we were having a human read the scripts and create kind of traditional recorded meditations. And we had some ideas about how we were going to distribute it differently and all these things, but I realized something hadn't quite clicked. We didn't really have it figured out, but we were just poking around the edges of how can we do this differently? Something's not right with the existing stuff out there, we know we can crack this open. And it was just kind of a flash of inspiration one day when I heard a podcast that was AI cloned voices of, I think, Joe Rogan and Elon Musk, and I was blown away.

:: 30:33

I said, this sounds just like those two men, and this is AI generated. So it kind of just clicked for me. It was the first time I heard convincing AI voices. And so I said, all right, we're already halfway here. We've been using AI to author the meditation scripts.

:: 30:51

Now we have the ability to read those scripts in a natural, humanistic way. My goodness, we're there. This is that moment. And part of entrepreneurship and being in tech is seeing the moment, right. Like understanding this is exactly where all these pieces have just fallen into place that make this possible, and can I now pull them together in a way that's compelling to people that want to meditate?

:: 31:21

And so, yeah, we very quickly started to pivot a little bit into creating what ultimately became the product that we launched in April. Right. And I think you're so right about that in terms of the technology. It sounds like you were right at the breaking point of when the crest of the wave starts to happen on AI. You were kind of already sitting there, and then, boom, we hit this threshold where those voices and other technologies as well just sort of ignited and took off.

:: 31:55

And particularly the voicing things. I think some people have not quite kept up with the technology like you have, where it's really compelling in terms of the quality of those voices. If people have had experiences of AI sounding, AI voices sounding kind of robotic, this is not that experience. This is something completely different. It sounds literally like you're listening to a human speaking.

:: 32:23

And so it's very interesting. And so you're going to do some more work. What's on the horizon in terms of these voices and new features that you're excited about? Yeah, so one I already mentioned is multilingual. Again, we're just excited about that because we feel that that's been an underserved global population.

:: 32:41

Right. And to be able to move quickly into that is really exciting. We just released something that it's already released, but I was very excited about. There was about a 45. To 62nd period where the script was being generated and the audio is being created.

:: 33:03

Just as of last week, we've reduced that to 5 seconds. It literally feels like a real meditation coach. It's me sitting here with you, Brett, and going, hey, can you create me? Just walk me through a guided meditation about my finances and I hit generate and you start speaking to me. And so that experience is really powerful.

:: 33:27

Right. It's like having again, your own meditation coach in your pocket at any point in time. So that I was very excited about. Another thing that I'm excited about on our roadmap is the integration of wearables. So to take interesting.

:: 33:41

Yeah. So taking data from Apple Watch or Aura or Whoop or Muse headsets, anything that tracks your heart rate, heart rate variability, your vitals, your pulse ox, and to be able to use that data to validate the effectiveness of the meditations. Did this help you lower your heart rate? If your heart rate lowered, that means you're likely resting and more present and not so fidgety. Did it increase your heart rate variability?

:: 34:11

Did you get into an altered state from this practice? So integrating that data I'm really excited about and that will allow us to again create this positive feedback loop where the AI will go, oh, this worked. So I'm going to do more of that and I'm going to test this and I'm going to do more of that and ultimately you get to the point where you have just the most. Effective techniques and so it's going to learn by monitoring what's working for you and adapt. Yeah, exactly.

:: 34:42

Holy moly. Think of it like a B testing, right? At scale. It's that, hey, this meditation was this way and it worked with this person's heart rate variability. It didn't work when we did this and obviously there are lots of variables to account for there and that's a whole large undertaking.

:: 35:01

But that's where the intelligence of this technology, it will be capable of learning these things over time. So that's awesome. And other things, I mean, we have about eight other meditation techniques that we've identified that we want to enable on the platform. That includes things like breath work as well, right? So the ability to walk through those.

:: 35:26

So as a coach, okay, so I'm a coach and I often will either do custom meditations for people because they need a particular sort of work.

:: 35:41

How can a coach use this canoe? Coach use this in their practice to help their clients? Yeah, absolutely. So the way that we want coaches to understand our approach here is to help them ten x the impact that they could have with their clients. So the way that that could look again today is if you have an engagement with a client where you meet with them once a week for an hour, for a twelve week program, you can then use Ogimi in between to send them suggested meditations.

:: 36:13

That process might take you five minutes to recommend a few meditations for the upcoming week versus the multiple hour process that it might take for you to actually create custom meditations for them. Yeah, exactly right. So you can use your knowledge set of hey based on this person and what they're going through or what they need help with. I'm going to recommend six prompts for the next six days. And that time saving, again, enables you to serve that client way better than you could otherwise.

:: 36:46

So that's how you can currently use the platform in the future. And we're working on quite a few interviews with coaches. And getting this dialed in is more of a creator side platform where you as a coach, can have an admin access. You can come in and you can author a seven day course on helping folks with ADHD, for example. Wow.

:: 37:11

And you can author that course with the assistance of AI. So it happens much more quickly. You can clone your voice so that you don't actually have to sit down and record those meditations. You just have to create that script and you can edit it manually to improve it. Okay, hold on, I'm going to press pause right there because that's a big deal.

:: 37:33

I'm like stopping going wait, you're saying that in the future, coaches will be able to use their own voice as one of the voices that are offered by the platform, and that is a private access then to their clients, and so that the platform then becomes an AI extension of their own voice to their own clients? Exactly. And again, to create a 30 minutes meditation for a client, it might take you three minutes. You can say, hey, AI, help me with this topic. Okay.

:: 38:13

It'll create the script. Now, you, as the expert that you are, because you still are the expert, you can refine that script by changing it, editing it, and then you can push send to your client. And you don't have to sit traditional text editor in that case. Yeah, exactly. In a text field.

:: 38:32

And you don't have to sit through the process of recording that 30 minutes meditation, editing it, adding background music, all the stuff that would go into creating a high quality guided meditation. You would never do that because you wouldn't have time to do it, or you wouldn't be able to service all your clients that way. And so that's where, again, coming back to Ten Xing, the impact that you can have on your clients is what this technology will enable you to do. Amazing. So help our listeners understand where to go to connect to all this goodness.

:: 39:07

Yeah. So easiest is to just go to Ogimi AI, Ogimi AI that has the direct link to sign up. It is free to try with just some limitations, but you can use it kind of for free indefinitely. Obviously, we'd love you to upgrade to the pro plan, which is a way to get access to all the features unlimited. The economics of it, again, are really fair.

:: 39:36

You're getting unlimited personalized coaching for essentially a nominal price. So love people to try it out. All of our social links are on the bottom of the website as well, so if you want to find us there and we do love feedback. So any responses to our emails or any DMs to our social, those all go straight to the team and we take every piece of feedback to heart. Yeah, and I can testify to that because I've been a user of a platform.

:: 40:05

I had a couple of ideas and David, you've been really gracious about, thank you, please do more. It's kind of like as opposed to sometimes when I send people feedback, it's kind of like, oh yeah, thanks, we'll get around to appreciate it. Please go fill out this form. But you've always been very gracious and open about that. I know you're aggressively innovating and doing a great job with the platform.

:: 40:29

Well, this is just so inspirational and so exciting and I'm thrilled to be an early adopter and want to help spread the word and get the word out. And I don't know what's next for you with this.

:: 40:50

I guess I just want to say what's next? Where do you go next with this? I know you've got so much on your plate in terms of what's coming at you. Are you having any big announcements coming up? Are you having conferences or other things?

:: 41:03

That where people can connect or otherwise get involved. Do you have like, a newsletter people can sign up with to get involved with the news coming out of your organization? Yes. So definitely if you become a user of the app, you'll be on the newsletter. So we'll announce any future upgrades there.

:: 41:20

It's free for people if they want to use the free version, correct? Exactly. It's your email and your first name. It's a very standard process that'll be the best way to stay in touch on any major announcements. And then what's next?

:: 41:35

We're in the process of a fundraise that's meaningful in terms of helping us expand and grow our marketing and growth and getting in front of more people. So I'm really excited about that. And then, yeah, we're nose to the grindstone on improving, so that's where that feedback comes in really handy. We want to get these tools out for coaches again to enable you to create meditations on your platform. It's currently a web app.

:: 42:02

We're launching an iOS app and an Android app in the next two months. So, yeah, lots of work ahead, but the motivation is there to keep going and to keep pushing this out into the world. That's great. Well, thank you so much. And I should say that if you're members of The The Mindful Coach Association Association get a special link to sign up for as well.

:: 42:24

If you haven't joined The The Mindful Coach Association Association@mindfulcoachassociation.com and you're a coach or helping professional that values mindfulness in your work, you can sign up for free there and you'll get a link to subscribe to the service that will be helpful for you, I'm sure. So thank you so much for the work that you're doing and for this ambitious, exciting new venture. And I'm wishing you all the best in the world with this. Thank you, Brad. Thank you for the support, thank you for the enthusiasm.

:: 42:56

And thank you for this conversation. I really enjoyed it. It's my pleasure. Bye